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CLSNA' LamontCentral Forum -> Sept Names History & Discussion -> Brown, White, Black
Post Info TOPIC: Brown, White, Black
Knockdow


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Brown, White, Black
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Names of Lamonts who changed their names in troublous times.


I noticed that Knockdow (Cnoc Dubh, meaning "Black Knoll" and pronounced "crok-doo") and Toward sit in "Glen Fyne" (Gleann Fionn, meaning "White Glen"), which drains down to Ardyne Point (Ard Fhionn, meaning "Height of White"). Can it be coincidence the other Lamond lands from Kilfinan to Point Lamond lay on the shores of "Loch Fyne" (White Loch)? This may be a possible explaination for where the alias "White" comes from.


Black’s of Clan Lamont have many origins.1 A branch of Blacks of Garvie, Glendaruel of the parish of Kilmodan. The head of the sept was known as Lamont called MacGilliedubh (Mac-‘Ille-Dhuibh-mor-na-Garbha), the black haired lad, 2 William Black, the novelist, traced his descent from a branch of Clan Lamont, driven from the Lamont country under a leader called the “Black Priest”  The exiles settled at Carnwath, in Lanarkshire, and became in process of time noted covenanters.. 

MacAlduie, MacGilledow, MacIlzegowie, MacIlzegui etc – All the above are synonymous names, and are traceable back to the Blacks, who were originally Lamonts of Castletoune of Baemar.To further confuse it is said that the Blacks of Clan MacLean were originally from Clan Lamont.

 



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George Young
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Knockdow


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I found one more source for the Black sept of Lamonts. The brother of Sir Laumon was known as GHIOLLE DUGH - Gaelic for black haired boy

 

Descendants of Malcolm MacFerchar 

Generation No. 1

 

1.  LORD OF COWALL MALCOLM1 MACFERCHAR  ) was born 1181 in Glassary, Argyllshire, Scotland, and died Abt. 1235 in Paisley, Renfewshire, Scotland..  He married DAUGHTER OF SOMERLED. 

 

Notes for LORD OF COWALL MALCOLM MACFERCHAR:

Giollacolium mic

Malcom Lamont born c1200 in Glassary, Argyll died about 1235. He is buried in the Paisley churchyard

 

Notes for DAUGHTER OF SOMERLED:

DAUGHTER OF SOMERLED OF THE ISLES

PRINCESS OF THE ISLE OF MANN

       

Children of MALCOLM MACFERCHAR and DAUGHTER SOMERLED are:

                   i.    1ST CHIEF OF THE LAMONTS SIR2 LAUMON, b. 1215, Cowal, Argyllshire, Scotland; d. 1293, Cowal, Argyllshire, Scotland; m. (1) ? MCDONALD, 1239; b. 1224, Western Isles, Scotland; d. 1268; m. (2) JEAN DE LYON, 1269; b. 1244.

Ist Chief of Clan Laomainn

Ladmainn mic

 

                 ii.    GHIOLLE DUGH, b. Abt. 1220.:

Younger black-haired son of Malcolm, nicknamed "Ghoille Dugh" the black lad which become the Black sept

 



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George Young
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Coinneach


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George,

I have three Brown's that come up in my 25 marker, 1 distance and also 2 distance on my Y-DNA, kinda of thought that was interesting, since I am still coming up with no surname matches. 

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Kenneth Luckey

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Knockdow


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Ken I looked at your 24/25 match, the numbers at this level indicate about a 90% probabilty of sharing a common ancestor at 16 generations(abt 1600). If you have not contacted him with your oldest ancestors details, I would suggest that you make contact. If you find some common geography of your ansectors, you should extend your test to at least 37 markers. he has already tested to that level.

25 markers are good but 37 & 67 will give you either verifaction of a common ancestor or push it further back in history making it difficult to find records. 300 to 400 it is very possible to find records to show the name changes

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George Young
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MacPatrick


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As we get more DNA comparisons I think we are going to find more blood matches among sept descendants who do not share the same surname.  I think it entirely possible we will find DNA matches with, for example, the surname of Lamont and Patrick.  If you will look at the Genealogy pages in McKechnie's book and consider the interchanged surnames in Scotland, you can see how this would happen.

Clan Gregor has an interesting DNA project, they are beginning to find DNA matches among the septs. My 4th GGF's DNA whose surname was Gregory matches the DNA of some of the particpating lines with the surname of McGregor.  Many of the McGregors assumed different surnames when they were outlawed and hunted.  As we all know many of the Lamonts did the same after the Dunoon Massacre.



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EoinDubh


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My closest match to date is a Montgomery match at 12, -1 at 25, -4 at 37 and -7 at 67. Also a Brown who is a match at 12 and -2 at 25. But no other Blacks.

Genealogically, I think that I have found a link back to Scotland to Ian Black, born in 1640 in Cowall. His son James moved to Northern Ireland around 1700 and from there to America. So far I do not have a closer location for Ian. There was a family story about a place in Scotland called "Knockdown". And a relative sent me a copy of the handwritten music to a piece called Glendaruel that he found in an old family book.


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rwbrowntx1


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My DNA study came back and i am related to the Brown's, the Black's, and the White's.

i am back to 1826 and stop there. The Brown's are hard to trace.  Have any more luck than me?



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Ronald W Brown
Knockdow


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welcome Ron

I sent you an email about the Lamont DNA study



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George Young
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rwbrowntx1


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Here is an interesting tidbit.

i read on the Web where Clan LaMont was the origination of the sur name Brown, Black, White, Green, etc.

It seems the Clan was at war with the Campbells and the Campbells were winning. Evidently, they had the "Black Knight" on there side.

Clan LaMont was losing,  Every time a Campbell saw a LaMont, he killed him.  The Chief of the LaMonts called a meeting, and assigned all his sons, names, such as Brown, Black, White, Green. 

This is one of the originations of a last name as a color.

This may not be true, but it is a good story.

 



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Ronald W Brown
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I can trace White all the way back to Bournemouth, England, in the late 1600s, but I have some more tenuous links further back to Wales and Ireland. Once I get home where my research is I will see if I can post it, it may be of some help.

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EoinDubh


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The latest matches that I have are :

At 111:
-9 Rodger
-9 Montgomery

At 67:
-2 Black
-4 Montgomery
-4 Montgomery
-4 Montgomery
-5 Montgomery
-5 Strong
-6 Rodger
-7 Rodgers
-7 Montgomery

At 37:

-2 Black
-2 Black
-2 Black
-3 Strang
-3 Strang
-3 Williams
-3 Montgomery
-3 Montgomery
-3 Montgomery
-4 Faulkinberry
-4 Faulkinberry
-4 Faulkinberry
-4 Strong
-4 Strong
-4 Cassel
-4 Montgomery
-4 Montgomery

AT less that 37 there are too many to list.
My question is where are all the Montgomerys coming from?


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